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7 Comments Received

Nollie Malabuyo
June 24th, 2006 @4:34 pm  

PCUSA members have to wake up to the reality that their denomination is long gone to unfaithfulness. Gresham Machen saw that in the 1920s, and so OPC was born.

Our Reformed fathers have a three-fold definition of what a true church is: “The church engages in the pure preaching of the gospel; it makes use of the pure administration of the sacraments as Christ instituted them; it practices church discipline for correcting faults” (Belgic Confession, Art. 29). It’s incontrovertible that there’s hardly any PCUSA church (or most “evangelical”) churches that has even two of these three marks.

When a church becomes a false church, it’s time to leave the church. Many Christians are deceived into thinking that they can be of influence within a false church. PCUSA members must ask themselves this question: Is there any church/denomination that has gone back to Scriptural faithfulness after it has walked the path of unfaithfulness? I don’t know of any.

I realize that leaving the denomination involves many personal and financial relations, and undoubtedly doctrinal issues, and will cause rifts within families and friends. However, if the Lord wills, majority of your pastors and their congregations will decide to leave your wayward denomination.

Nevertheless, I don’t think that PCUSA congregations should band together and form a new denomination. Many faithful Presbyterian and Reformed denominations are already there, e.g., OPC, PCA, URCNA, RPCNA, to name a few.

The Lord be with you all.

Rev. Robert L. Bellingar
June 24th, 2006 @5:52 pm  

I think that you forgot the EPC.

I have a question, “What do we do with Paul’s words to the Corinthians, which were inspired by the Holy Spirit, concerning being unequally yoked with unbelievers?” I realize that some of you believe the other side of the coin are believers. I want you to note that Paul is using the description of oxen yoked together here. The Old Testament did not believe that a mother and her calf oxen should be yoked together nor shoul anyone yoke an ox and a donkey or any other animal together.

When we are yoked to the liberal leadership of this denomination, we go where the senior ox goes and do what it does. The question is, “Are we yoked to the Lord Jesus Christ or to sinful man?”

I believe that it is imperative that we are in prayer over this breaking of the 7th commandment.

Rev. Kathy Sizer
June 24th, 2006 @8:29 pm  

I was on the Ecclesiology committee and worked closely w/ Jim Tony and Mary Naelgli. Here is what I am sending out to my church; we are in need of saving churches from leaving; I am no more about doom-saying (as was my speech at GA), but about trying to keep people from leaving.

Kathy Sizer

Dear friends,

I believe there will be little if no local effect from the PUP report.
Los Ranchos Presbytery will continue to make decisions about leaders; our own church will continue to make decisions about its leaders; no one will force us to do anything beyond that. Think of it as sort of like “states’ rights” vs. federalism. Locally, we have gained a bit of power (usually we like that, don’t we!). We won’t like what some others will do with their local power, but it will not effect us.

At GA, we made a few amendments to the report that we believe will help to soften its effects. Thought you all might to see the following words from one of my friends who helped us work against the PUP report. I love her quote: “The PUPpy is still running around, but its leash was shortened.”

The process was fair and hard fought. We made every argument in the book, and we made them well. I was one of the major spokespersons in our committee and on the plenary floor against passing the PUP report (rec. 5). The great middle of the church was not voting about sexuality, but about an overwhelming desire to get out of “the ditch” we’ve been in (fighting over sexuality) and get on with doing the work of the church. That is what I long to do. Let’s do it together w/ our brothers and sisters in the PCUSA; no matter what they think about this issue, I find them to be faithful disciples who love Jesus Christ just as much as I do.

Thank you for all your prayers and support. I am physically and emotionally exhausted and glad to be leaving town Monday!

Kathy

Original Message
From: my friend
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Praise God!

“Dear Kathy,

You all did a fantastic job on the floor of General Assembly; I was so proud
of you. And you know, we accomplished =a lot more= than you have been given
credit for. I am hoping justice will be done on that score soon. The
amended versions of both Rec. 4 and 5 significantly change their application
(I’ve been saying, “the PUPpy is still running around, but its leash was
shortened”), I am absolutely sure of this. The rhetoric (from our renewal
groups) in response is erroneously harsh and doomsday. But mark my words,
within a couple of months, people, especially on the other side, are going
to see what they are working with, and they are not going to get much
“leeway” after all. Please be encouraged by this. I have spoken at length
with the stated clerks of San Francisco Presbytery and Redwoods Presbytery,
and the Executive Presbyters of San Francisco, San Joaquin and Los
Ranchos‹they all agree that the amendment from the floor was hugely
significant and takes the stinger out of this thing.

This is the message I am taking home to our renewal-minded folks in my presbytery.”

Matt Ferguson
June 25th, 2006 @5:48 am  

After coming out with a fairly straightforward, clear statement upholding the authority of scripture over loyalty to our small c church. This release has some comments within it that are already pulling back from such a solid stand.
Don’t do that! Stand firm! The ACC ruled during the debate what the amendments did and didn’t do to #5 and all the spinning in the world the denominational loyalists do will not change it.
Our ultimate loyalty is to God and our being a part of the big C Church far outweighs our little c church affections. In fact, a strong stand within our little c for God’s clearly revealed truth is our service to God and the big C Church.
Don’t go back to Egypt—don’t do it.
God’s blesings to you,
Matt

Matt Ferguson
June 25th, 2006 @8:08 am  

Greetings in the Name of our Lord Jesus!

Kathy, in your post above you mention churches leaving and how concerned you are about it.
Where are they leaving to? They are not leaving the big C Church, but only a little c church.
Why is that such huge issue with you? Especially in light that by their actions they are seeking greater faithfulness to God’s call in their collective lives.
That is why our property clause is so okay, it is evil. Other reformed bodies do not have it (PCA and EPC as examples) and we should not. If we are about churches seeking faithfulness to God at their ultimate goal rather than faithfulness to some little c church then we wouldn’t have such a clause as that property one.
So, why are you so concerned about churches following as God is leading them?
God’s blessings to you,
Matt

Rocky
June 26th, 2006 @9:16 pm  

“What do we say to our churches?” Many of us were asking ourselves that question as members filed in for worship with questions like, “Is it true that they made it ok to ordain people who don’t believe in Jesus?”

What do we say to our churches? We were prepared to say something in response to inaccuracies in media reporting, but these members have seen a 3/4 page paid advertisement composed by ministers from our presbytery and placed in our daily paper. Lifting almost verbatim language from your renewal movements, these ministers gave us congregations full of confused and alarmed worshipers on the Lord’s Day.

What do we say to our churches? That’s the easy question. Undoubtedly, the harder question is now, “What do I say to my colleagues?”

randy rowland
July 5th, 2006 @4:14 am  

I continue to pray for the PCUSA. I left for the CRC in the midst of a personal crisis and the need for a new address several years ago. Yet, i still love the PCUSA and find myself hoping that the Reformed Bodies (Presbyterian and Reformed) can somehow hang together. But, that won’t happen with unorthodox trinitarian formulations and ordination practices that ignore scripture and historical church practices. It is with love that i urge evangelical/orthodox pastors and laypersons to hang in there and continue to fight the good fight. you have friends and prayer partners in the CRC who love you and are cheering for you. blessings on all!

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