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13 Comments Received

Brian Wallace
October 5th, 2006 @12:20 pm  

Right on Alec…

If you haven’t read it check out Andrew Purves’ “Reconstructing Pastoral Theology” which takes the issue you raise and addresses it head on.

- Brian Wallace

Reformed Catholic
October 5th, 2006 @7:52 pm  

Alex said: “I never heard a thorough discussion of sin in CPE.”

I think part of the problem is that we’re not hearing enough of sin from the pulpits as well !!

Hope Lee
October 6th, 2006 @6:20 am  

Oh Alec……
I’m so proud of you! Thanks be to God that someone finally is able to vocalize what so many can’t even recognize!

John Erthein
October 6th, 2006 @6:47 am  

Alec,

As a Princeton Seminary Grad, and an evangelical, I can relate to what you are saying to a certain extent. I took FOUR units of CPE (I must note that the lack of theological grounding is not limited to CPE, as you have also noted. Some of my first-call pastor seminars were atrocious in that regard.). Fortunately, I visited many people in the hospital who did have a Christian background, and so it was permitted … and expected … to minister to them in an explicitly Christian manner.

There were times, of course, when I needed to minister to non-Christians. As a chaplain in a secular hospital, obviously I would need to respect their personal context. In such cases, I would simply pray silently for them to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

On a personal note, I am grateful for my CPE experience … notwitstanding some of the deficiencies … because I was forced to confront and transcend my various fears that would have harmed my ministry over time. Being able to minister to people who have lost a baby at 2 am is a growing experience, to say the least.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is the financial aspect of CPE. If one takes a unit of CPE during the summer, in almost every case, one receives NO compensation. That really runs up the indebtedness! If Presbyteries are going to require something like CPE, the Presbyteries should step up and pay a stipend comparable to that of regular Field Education.

Anyway, Alec, thanks for sharing, and God speed in your seminary education and preparation for the Gospel ministry.

Blessings,

John Erthein
M. Div. 2002

Dave Moody
October 6th, 2006 @7:05 am  

Amen!
A welcome antidote to the atheological worldview about which you write so well, is Bonhoeffer’s “Spiritual Care,” put out by Fortress. A thin yet profound help for the pastor. As is most of his stuff.

Godspeed in seminary, even if it is Princeton ;-).

Dave Moody
Regent College, 2000.

wb
October 6th, 2006 @9:18 am  

As a friend and classmate of Alec’s, who also completed his “really, really recommended ‘but not techinically required’” CPE unit this summer, I’d like to weigh in…I strongly agree with Alec’s assessment.

My antecdotal story was meeting the ordained Hospice chaplain who introduced herself as “a Christian…and a Buddhist.” (please note: “ordained”). So, I can echo Alec’s feelings; my experience was that I received training to make people “feel better” as an interfaith counselor, who happened to have a speciality in the Christian faith.

This created an issue for me, “How do I bring hope to the hopeless, when the only source of my hope is Jesus Christ?”

As I shared this with Alec and another friend last night, they asked, “what did your supervisor say?” Unfortunately, my response was “nothing.”

Therefore, if programs are teaching students how to provide spiritual bandaids to make people “feel better” rather than exposing them to their vulnerabilities and sins in order to offer them the grace and hope of Christ, then they are not equiping and preparing people well for Christian ministry.

Peace,
Wes Barry

anonymous
October 6th, 2006 @1:57 pm  

Alec,
You are a ray of hope in an otherwise dismal denomination. May Christ strengthen your ministry, and may His resurrection always be the cornerstone of your faith.
A Sister in Christ

Justin Ramb
October 8th, 2006 @5:06 am  

Alec,
Many thanks for sharing. You will be a welcome addition to this denomination.
Justin Ramb

joe
October 18th, 2006 @11:41 am  

You’re way off base, son… way off base!

Anonymous
October 18th, 2006 @1:41 pm  

Alec,

I invite you to to a residency year of CPE. Certainly as a Christian, and in your case an evangelical Christian, you should never deny who you are or your beliefs.

Certainly the risen Christ should be the bedrock of your ministry. However, CPE is about having a safe place to explore your pastoral calling in a challenging and ecumenical environment.

I think you will find as you go down the road of ministry and encounter life, death, tragedy and heartache in your own life as well as those you are called to, you will see the redemptive work of Christ in places you didn’t expect.

Peace to you,
Scott

Alec
October 18th, 2006 @2:32 pm  

I would just like to clarify, as some people have found my comments offensive. I do not believe that the ministry taking place in CPE is full of “clowns.” In fact, I very much appreciate their ministry. What I am trying to question is an ordained minister, acting in a parish setting, using the CPE values and assumptions as their sole model for ministry. I believe ministries of presence and compassion are necessary for parish ministries, but are they sufficient?
This is not an essay on CPE, it is an essay on ordained ministry in the PCUSA. I offer my apologies to those in the CPE program that I have offended, as I did not intend to call them clowns.
Alec

Jonathan S.
October 18th, 2006 @9:38 pm  

I feel that the biggest problem with CPE is that it inevitably (1) replaces something else and (2) costs a lot. Many of us are preparing for specific types of ministry, and often a summer of pulpit supply, language training (Spanish, Korean), coursework, cross-cultural experience, etc., would serve us better. I think CPE is great for personal growth, but it is not good pastoral formation.

People also forget that the CPE environment has changed a lot in the last decade or two. (My mom did 8 units in the 80s.) Before, most Americans were part of a shared civil religion (monotheistic, God Bless America, etc.) to which CPE could minister. Generic pastoral prayer was more welcome, chaplains had more time to get to know the patients, and the community was less transient. Nowadays, this just isn’t the case. In CPE we often end up serving as a type of religious functionary for exurbanites, monitored by a hospital bureaucracy.

In fact, we become free labor for hospitals, which are money-making, corporate environments. Patients no longer stay for long. Many visits are a “one-shot” deal. In CPE you are the “spiritual” representative, just as there is a social worker, a nurse, a doctor, and insurance folk. Rather than representing _____ Presbyterian Church, we represent ____ Hospital, Inc.

The thing that helped me the most was actually not to see it as pastoral training, but instead as formation for Christian witness. My job was not to represent “religion,” “the Church,” “the hospital,” or “the CPE program.” Instead, my job was to be kind to sick people. If I met people who were Christian and asked for prayer, I would do this. However, it was in no sense pastoral formation.

I wish CPM’s would not require CPE. Candidates are called to be responsible/obedient to the Church, but are CPMs. I think that CPMs that require CPE often do so at the expense of candidates’ own sense of what will best prepare them for ministry. I also believe that the decision to impose CPE should be for all or none, and should be made by the whole Presbytery and not a single committee. The irony is that many CPMs are often unaware of how paternalistic they can be. They forget that a decision they make in minutes costs the candidate thousands of hours and thousands of dollars.

Grace James
November 18th, 2006 @6:18 pm  

Alec, I appreciate your comments. While at Union-PSCE, I heard many things good and bad about CPE. One fellow student thought his time would have been better served if he had taken courses on church building maintence since he was called to the rural small church. I received my MCE in 2001 and am now considering the MDiv. I attended Eden in St. Louis while living there. I was astounded at the universalist view. Even at Union-PSCE the tendency was to get away from a Christocentric theology to a world view. I left Eden after 1 semester of being repeatedly told that I obviously had never studied the Bible if I believed that God really wrote it and that it was entirely true. I am planning to visit Pittsburg in the Spring. How are things there? I don’t want to put you on the spot, but will I have to bite my tongue to get accepted or can I be an evangleical Christian and be respected?