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Dave Moody
October 25th, 2006 @7:23 am  

Michael,
Thought provoking post- and the previous one as well. Thanks for pushing us beyond the idoloatry of property, for a t least a little while.

Three comments: 1) I wonder if perhaps (hows that for confidence) you might be onto something in your final thoughts– not fixing the theology prior to the fixing the structure, but a both and– the proof of the pudding being the ability to remain a viable missional community, or in Jesus word’s - “they will know you by the fruit you bear”

2) A fatal flaw in the purpose, as you’ve stated it- for FOG (this might be in your previous post, sorry if I’m mixing things), imo, is the statement-’while maintaining the presbytery as the fundamental unit of ministry’ or domething to that effect. I just don’t see that being viable or true. It has to be the congregation as the front line most basic expression of all the church does. Yes, we can do things better, with more bang, together than apart- but we cannot think or assume that what we do together is more fundamental than what we are doing as congregations. Does that make sense? It still smells to me that by assuming the presbytery is the primary unit of the denom. that control is a major, major issue. We want to be missional to a point– but only if it doesn’t interfere with Louisville’s agenda.

3) It is fascinating to me, that in these conversations on being missional, FOG, etc…- the elephant in the room is being ignored. New Wineskins Association. It seems to me that FOG, et al- if the denom is really and truly interested in the great ends of the church (catholic)- all resources, models and ideas would be openly and frankly evaluated on their merit, regardless of the company’s insecurity.

Thank you for continuing to push in the right direction. And amen to your statement on reading Guder’s book. We’ll see if there are ears to hear.

grace & peace,
dm

Matt
October 27th, 2006 @8:28 am  

Michael-
Thanks for the post. I was reflecting a couple of weeks ago as I sat through a starkly divided Presbytery meeting in Sacramento, what a Goliath Presbytery meetings seemed to me as a 20 something. I was thinking how meaningless and disconnected the meeting would seem to so many among the younger generations to which I minister. I thought to myself, its no surprise that I am one of the youngest people in this room right now. But, what can we do? Thanks for putting some meat on those thoughts. This is interesting stuff.

Jin S. Kim
November 3rd, 2006 @2:46 pm  

Michael, great reflections! I think one thing to work out is how our evangelical impulse toward congregationalism is at odds with our evangelical impulse toward legislating morality. How do we allow for greater congegational freedom for innovation and risk while at the same time mandating uniform and detailed ordination standards for every congregation? I’m not saying this can’t be done, just that these opposing impulses are part of the reason for our impasse. Keep thinking!

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